In this two-part episode of Healthcare Americana, Christopher Habig talks with two of the most prominent figures in the Direct Primary Care Movement. First, he interviews Jay Kempton, the president and CEO of the Kempton Group and the founder of the FMMA. Together, they explore the FMMA’s mission to foster transparency, quality, and affordability in healthcare by facilitating connections between buyers and sellers in the free market. They discuss the organization’s efforts to educate stakeholders on healthcare middlemen, break down barriers between patients, physicians, and self-insured employers, and preview the FMMA’s 10th Anniversary Conference.
In the second half of the episode, Christopher is joined by Dr. Keith Smith. Dr. Smith elaborates on the FMMA’s annual conference and shares success stories of collaboration among its members. He emphasizes the fearlessness and transparency inherent in the free market, highlighting the role of surgery centers in local communities. Dr. Smith also identifies individuals who may not be a good fit for the FMMA and reflects on the organization’s growth and significance over the past decade. Encouraging listener involvement, he invites participation in the FMMA and encourages attendance at its upcoming conference, April 10-12th in Oklahoma City.
More on Freedom Healthworks & FreedomDoc
Subscribe at https://healthcareamericana.com/episodes/
More on Jay Kempton – The Kempton Group – Dr. Keith Smith – Surgery Center of Oklahoma – Free Market Medical Association – FMMA Annual Conference
Follow Healthcare Americana: Instagram & LinkedIN
TRANSCRIPTION
[INTRODUCTION]
Announcer
At Freedom Healthworks, we are focused on putting medical professionals back in control of their practices, utilizing a structured, tailored approach to business startup and operations. It could make sense for you to work with our professional team to avoid expensive pitfalls, and more importantly, expedite your journey to success. As we all know, time is money. If you’re involved in the practice of medicine and desire to practice free of headaches and constraints, reach out for a no obligation, consultative conversation, call us today at 317-804-1203 or visit freedomhealthworks.com.
[EPISODE]
Christopher Habig
Hello and welcome to Healthcare Americana, where we explore the frontiers of healthcare, bringing you insights from the leaders and innovators reshaping the industry. I’m Christopher Habig, the CEO of Freedom Healthworks. And in today’s episode, we’re exploring the world of free market healthcare a little more than we usually do
with a special focus on the Free Market Medical Association or FMMA in their annual conference. Joining us is Jay Kempton, president and CEO of the Kempton Group. Excuse me, Jay, a third party administrator, a founder of the FMMA. And he’s here to share why this year’s conference is an absolute must tend event, who’s headlining it and really what the FMMA envisions for the future of healthcare. The FMMA serves
as a beacon for those advocating for transparency, quality and affordability in healthcare. By championing the principles of three market, the FMMA brings together providers, self -funded employers and patients in a collaborative effort to drive change. Now, 10 years in and with the annual conference on the horizon, anticipation is building around the programming, the speakers, the sessions and the potential for really groundbreaking collaborations.
So I’m thrilled to bring on Jay Kempton with us today, a very passionate advocate for the free market approach to healthcare. Jay, welcome to the show. Can you start by giving us really a brief, actually doesn’t need to be that brief, but overview of really what the Free Market Medical Association stands for and the purpose of bringing everybody together for an annual conference.
Jay Kempton
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Chris. I appreciate being on the show and being able to discuss some of these things. Yeah, so the Free Market Medical Association, I’ll kind of talk about what it is and then kind of how it came about. The Free Market Medical Association, just like you had mentioned, is really centered on connecting these islands of healthcare. And in the free market world, you know, really, you know
the two entities or two players in any market that are really preeminent are the buyer and the seller. And the nice thing about, you know, buyers is every man, woman and child in the United States is a buyer of healthcare goods and services. So we certainly focus on the buyer. Sellers of healthcare goods and services could be physicians, surgery centers, hospitals, direct primary care physicians
durable medical equipment providers. And, we try to bring those buyers and sellers together, for the ability to network and simply learn how they can do business together at a lower price point than what is generally accepted out there in society and out there in healthcare and be able to do it in the easiest fashion as possible, removing as many obstacles and middlemen
as we possibly can. You had mentioned that in my introduction that the Kempton Group, which is my company, is a third party administrator. We are a middleman, which is a little bit ironic. And in healthcare, a lot of the crazy shenanigans that drive costs up are caused by the middleman. And so that’s another thing that the Free Market Medical Association does is we also help to educate the buyer and seller to be able to discern
what middlemen are actually bringing value to the transaction as patients and as medical providers, and which ones are actually kind of a tax on the transaction. So that’s kind of the concept for who the players are in the Free Market Medical Association.
Jay Kempton
Really the buyer and seller in healthcare, if you think about it, the patient and the physicians and the hospitals, those were, and also the self -insured employer is also a consummate buyer of healthcare goods and services. Those people really were never envisioned to meet and talk to each other and figure out how they could do business directly. It’s always that relationship, at least for two generations, has always been strained through the lens of an insurance company
or a hospital system or something. So we’re trying to break down those barriers. The Free Market Medical Association was started really based on something that myself and my co -founder, Dr. Keith Smith at Surgery Center of Oklahoma, something that we experienced 10 years ago. Actually, it’s been about 12 years ago now before we even founded the FMMA.
And that was, we started doing business together. We’re three miles apart, but we never knew each other existed. And we started doing business together with my self -insured employer clients in Surgery Center of Oklahoma. And over just a few very short years, we started seeing based on our relationship and the commerce that we were doing between my employers and their patients
and Surgery Center of Oklahoma that we started to see Keith Smith started seeing a lot of medical providers in the Oklahoma City area start to enter the market wanting to offer transparent bundled cash pricing. So he started having competitors crawl out of the woodwork to compete with him. And as we started comparing notes, he said, well, you know, you’re starting to, we’re starting to see some of your competitors.
approaching us to buy with our upfront bundled cash pricing. And we started to see kind of a little free market DIY health reform happening just at the grassroots level here in Oklahoma City. And about three years of that, we said, you know, there’s something.
Jay Kempton
Something magical is happening here in Oklahoma City. And it’s really, it’s not because of any legislation, not because of any top -down solution that somebody provided. It was really about buyers and sellers learning how to do business with each other in a flatter, more efficient way. And we formed the Free Market Medical Association to try to spread what we experienced to the entire country. And so really, yeah, that’s where the FMMA was born.
Christopher Habig
The thing I love about the FMMA is, and you highlighted this in so many different ways,
is that there’s a lot of people who want to do business together and do the right type of business together when it comes to healthcare. And I kind of laugh, you know, when we talk about what we do from Freedom Healthworks and how we’re a network of independent practices and we help physicians start up and people kind of look at you funny like, wow, I never even knew that that was possible. And that’s exactly where your story came in of how, you know, kind of the dream team of Jay Kempton and Keith Smith came together in this perfect kind of world to create the FMMA. But
when I go when I go to these annual conferences, I I remember, you know, my first one like probably four or five years ago, maybe longer than that right now. And I’m looking around this room and I’m thinking there’s so many people on each side of that transaction like you highlighted that want to work together, but nobody knows how.
And I think it really hit me last year where I’m like, holy cow, like that is happening. It was organic and had to it couldn’t be forced, I guess is my point. And so people started to come in together and saying, you know what? We do have employers over here who need trusted access and trusted care and not just Chuck employees and people because everybody we’re talking about human beings here into the same old same old that is just driving us absolutely nuts. And so the evolution
of the FMMA conference. And I mentioned earlier that, you know, this is this is 10 years. So I’m expecting a lot of fireworks and celebration, a lot of birthday cake, just every meal. Jay, I’m just putting that in your ear. A lot of birthday cake. So 10 years big, big time, you know, celebration, big time achievement, returning back to the hometown of Oklahoma City, a absolute all star killer list of headlining guests, people sharing their expertise.
Christopher Habig
We’ve got people who, in my mind are built to piss off the establishment for all the right reasons. We’ve got trailblazers. We’ve got innovators. Give us give us kind of a look behind the scenes on what it was like putting this roster together and give us some of the big names that are going to come and enlighten the crowd, I guess.
Jay Kempton
Yeah, yeah, so this is going to be a conference that is going to, I think there’s going to be a lot of new things that are going to be discussed, like always. I think it’s going to be the speaker list and the topics are going to be really, really powerful. But we are going to take a slight indulgence and kind of take a little bit of a retrospective look of where we’ve been, where we’ve…
where we have all come, how far we’ve come in the last 10 years. And so some of the guests, I’ll go through a few of them, they’re actually, we’re bringing some of our keynote speakers back for kind of a reunion event, if you will. The theme of the conference this year is Back to the Future. So that makes some sense. But some of the names that you’ll see at the conference, Larry Van Horn,
which he was a professor at Vanderbilt. He was actually instrumental in consulting with the Trump administration on crafting the No Surprises Act, which was a big piece. He’s a trained economist. He’s been a great, great resource for all things free market in the healthcare space. So later he’ll be coming back. Dr. Marty Makary
is another one. He’s a good friend of the FMMA. He’s a physician from Johns Hopkins and he’s written some incredible books like The Price We Pay, which is like almost the Bible, right? Of DIY free market healthcare reform. It’s a great book. If any of your listeners haven’t read that. So Marty, Dr. Makary will be back kind of reflecting a little bit on where we’ve all been, where we’re going. Dave Chase
the founder of Health Rosetta and also the author of, I’ll make sure I get this right, the CEO’s Guide to Restoring the American Dream. I think he’s written a couple of other books, but Dave is absolutely a legend in, again, the free market healthcare reform space. Chris Deacon will be there, kind of giving us a state of the state, if you will, in all things transparency and the Consolidated Appropriations Act.
Jay Kempton
And then we’ve got a couple of attorneys that are really fearless in this space.
When you’re out there swimming upstream and there’s a lot of money to be made in the status quo broken healthcare system. And so a lot of us that are out here doing this, sometimes you could say, well, we’re kind of a lightning rod for regulatory looks just to make sure that this DIY reform is being done correctly. And so we’ve got a couple of really amazing
benefits attorneys Adam Russo from the Phia Group and then also Corey Zavada with Fiduciary Risk Solutions is also going to be there and really their counsel to so many in this movement has been really really special to make sure that we’re doing things right. So they’ll be there.
And then probably last, not the whole list, but as far as another highlight would be Matt Ort. Matt Ort has recently written the book Save Your Company, Don’t Feed the Beasts. And Matt is an employer that has become, was so involved in saving his company’s healthcare plan
through some of these reforms that he actually said, you know, he was inspired to leave his employer and actually become a benefits consultant to start to try to spread the word. Matt’s got some amazing insight and he’s also gonna be one of our really special speakers that will welcome me back.
Christopher Habig
Really an all-star lineup and I’m sitting here shaking. It’s kind of the who’s who of this industry. And we kind of mentioned before that healthcare is a fifth of our nation’s economy, yet we’re sitting here talking like this is the frigging Wild West. We can do all these cool things and talk to these cool people who are just thinking outside of the box. And I know that there’s been…
Jay Kempton
Yeah, it is. I mean, it’s going to be great.
Christopher Habig
you know, references. I always like the themes of the the the the conferences here. And, you know, I always use the matrix reference a lot. It’s like, you know, that was a few years ago and then kind of the rebellion last year. And then it’s like, all right, look at what we’ve accomplished in the last 10 years, because I don’t think any other industry out there, maybe than like the when the the Internet switched over from that really annoying dial up sound into actually being able to do things.
Jay Kempton
It fits.
Christopher Habig
There are very few industries out there that have moved as quickly as this one has. And I was liking that snowball being being pushed down the mountain. It finally feels like it’s like, OK, 10 years in FMMA is doing this. We’re bringing a lot of people to the table. We’re going and that snowball is picking up speed. It’s picking up mass. It’s picking up people that might not wanted to be swept up in it. But you know what? Here they are. And damn it, they’re they’re drinking the Kool -Aid for sure. So for people listening here,
and as of right now, I have no idea what the attendance figures are looking like and how many tickets are even available. If there are any, I know the past couple of conferences have been very quick sellouts for somebody who’s thinking about either joining the FMMA conference or attending it to see what all the hoopla is about. What do they expect? You know, how is this conference structured to actually benefit the attendees of different sectors of the healthcare industry? Not being something that, you know, somebody comes in and kind of kind of tunes out for a day and a half.
Jay Kempton
Yeah! Yeah, no, that’s a great question. And that is something that we have evolved from, you know, basically just being a free market mosh pit where, you know, it was kind of a singular forum, if you will. We still do quite a bit of that because really one of the really powerful things of the FMMA, again, is getting people that normally wouldn’t cross paths to start to talk and build a dialogue
and really craft a lot of innovative solutions have really come from a lot of that networking. But also to make it relevant to some of the different aspects of the membership, we’ve really have created several different tracks for the breakout component of the conference. Obviously there’s a buyer track, so that would be attractive to individuals or self-insured employers.
Again, really the pure buyers that have the sticker shock, there will be a track for that. There’s also a seller track, which of course that would be for direct primary care physicians, facility managers, surgeons, et cetera. And again, these are not pigeonholed. So, you know, if you’re a buyer and you want to attend the seller’s track, boy, we encourage that as well. It’s actually pretty amazing to hear that different perspective. New this year,
is going to be a student track for med students. We’ve always had some attendance from med students throughout the years, but that has steadily grown. It would be a whole nother podcast in and of itself, Chris, but what the med student world is going through right now with some of the crazy
initiatives that are going on at some of these medical schools that really are, you know, it’s about the segmentation of the population and, you know, all of those things. The med students are, they’re not hearing both sides of the story. They are hearing a particularly slanted view of the healthcare system that is generally big government, big hospital, big insurance.
Jay Kempton
The idea of having an independent practice that’s completely a non -starter. You shouldn’t even consider that. And so we are going to be speaking to the med students through a med student track to talk to them where they’re going to hear from other physicians that have broken away and are going back into independent practice, just so they can hear that there is another way forward in your medical career.
And then lastly, there’ll be a consultant track. So, and that would be for benefits consultants, third party administrators, pharmacy benefit managers, to really learn, you know, what are some of those best practices out there? You know, your listeners might find it interesting, but, you know, especially on the consultant or the vendor track, which again, I’m a part of, a lot of those folks,
realize that maybe their compensation is structured in such a way that is out of alignment with the needs of their clients and the employers, et cetera, but they don’t know how to do business the right way. They don’t know how to reduce or eliminate those conflicts. And so that’s actually something that we spend a lot of time emphasizing
at the conference and that is how to do business in a way that does no harm.
Christopher Habig
So sounds like four different tracks, buyer, seller, students, consultants. From the from the from the student standpoint, you know, there seems to be a lot of highly politicized conversations in medical schools and everything right there. But, you know, from where we come across is a lot of physicians get out of medical school and they don’t even know that it’s OK to say no to hospital employment. So it’s there’s a lot of problems with the training regimen. And and, you know, I won’t I won’t call it anybody specific here, but,
I kind of felt like that when I was an undergrad is like there’s a lot of colleges right now and I think that’s why education is going under a very similar type of a shift that healthcare really is, is people saying, you know, do we do we actually need this? Aren’t there other options out there? Because I always felt from undergrad that I’m like I came out of four years. I’m like, I know how to be a really great employee and I don’t want to do that. So what do I do? Who do I talk to? How do I go learn? And, you know, I probably wouldn’t be here if that weren’t the case. And just this hunger for more and more and more. But,
too many people feel pigeonholed and like you said that this has to go this route. Exactly, exactly. And that’s one of the things that, again, you know, I’m kind of gushing about the FMMA and this organization has been very important to my work and in my life and career. But being able to show people options is insanely powerful. So, Jay, I want you to look in your crystal ball looking forward, you know, beyond the conference. And I know it might seem that like, all right.
Jay Kempton
Like there is no other option.
Christopher Habig
You know…and I always got to be careful when people listen to this, because somebody might be listening to the show, you know, in 10 years from now, and they’re going to call us out on it, what we say next. But what is, you know, the future of the FMMA look like getting beyond the short-term conference goals? Where do you really want to go as an organization?
Jay Kempton
Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, you know, Dr. Smith and I, when we envisioned the FMMA, it was to, again, to pour gasoline on what we had already been experiencing in Oklahoma. So it was about awareness. It was about best practices. It was about being influential and accelerating really just the growth of
the free market in healthcare. Now the reason I say that is we don’t have any, Dr. Smith and I both have day jobs and the FMMA is really more of a passion. It is run extremely lean. We’re not trying to make jobs for anybody. And so the future of the FMMA is continue to expand the FMMA’s influence to again, promote more and accelerate
more of what we call DIY healthcare reform through just innovation in the buyer community and in the seller community and then the facilitators. We want to expand into more states. We want to, again, be more influential to accelerate the adoption of these principles.
Christopher Habig
Jay, that’s going to wrap up the first part of this episode as we’ve done in the past. Part two of. Really one of my favorite episodes of the year when I’m able to do this
is going to feature Dr. Keith Smith. But, you know, Jay, I always I always like kicking off and just saying, you know, you have an amazing skill of taking these high level goals of like, oh, my gosh, aren’t you just trying to boil the ocean and boiling them down into real actionable goals? And here’s what we’re going to do. And here’s the people that are going to be bringing together. And then you let those relationships just kind of bubble up and don’t force it. So I always commend you on your work and then your ability to communicate that and bring it down to all of us
on the ground floor, I will say and say, you know what? There is a future in this healthcare right here. And the FMMA has done a brilliant job leading the way. So Jay Kempton, president, CEO of Kempton Group, a TPA founder of the FMMA. I appreciate you joining us here for part one of this Free Market Medical Association. Deep dive, Jay. It’s always a pleasure.
Jay Kempton
Absolutely. Thanks, Chris.
Christopher Habig
In part two of today’s episode detailing the Free Market Medical Association and its special emphasis on the FMMA’s annual conference, we’re now talking with Dr. Keith Smith with the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. Dr. Smith usually needs no introduction and Dr. Smith, I always consider you to be one of the people who really fired the shot heard around the world. Just what seems like forever ago now, I know in a daily life
all your history buffs out there. Dr. Smith, also a founder of the Free Market Medical Association, along with Jay Kempton, who you heard from earlier in this episode. So, Dr. Smith, welcome to the show. It’s always a pleasure to have you on.
Dr. Keith Smith
Thanks for having me.
Christopher Habig
Now, the Free Market Medical Association, and I kind of go back between long form and short form with the FMMA. In my view, it’s always been a very critical platform for fostering collaboration. And I don’t use that word lightly by any means when it comes to this industry. And, you know, the dogfights we have and the trench warfare we have every single day and just the direct primary care world where Freedom Healthworks operates. But the collaboration between various stakeholders in healthcare. I want to start by
highlighting or having you highlight, you know, a success story or some type of significant outcome from past conferences between FMMA members that really exemplify what the FMMA is trying to do. Give us a success story of people coming in saying, wow, I didn’t know that the other side actually wanted to work together here. This is great. And moving forward helped out so many different people.
Dr. Keith Smith
Well, it’s probably a good idea for the listeners to understand why
the members of the FMMA tend to be and are not afraid of collaborating. It’s always astonishing. I know when I have a conversation with a new member who’s trying to start a surgery center or is trying to start some, some their own variant of a free market version of a practice and I introduce them to someone who maybe has just done what they’ve done and they just reveal all.
Or if they’re starting a surgery center, I will invite them to come have lunch here at the Service Center of Oklahoma and give them a tour and answer all of their questions and reveal all. And so this tendency, this desire actually to be collaborative, I think, deserves an explanation and it should be highlighted because…
in the free market, it is the opposite of what happens in the rest of the industry. In the rest of the industry, everything is proprietary. Nothing is transparent. Everything is secret. You gain an advantage. You gain market share over your competitor. The people that are involved in this movement have said with confidence, here is what I do and here is how I value it. Now, market, judge me.
That is a fearless act. That is the act of someone who is confident in their skills. And so they’re not afraid. They’re not afraid of competitors. So when a hospital administrator asked me years ago,
Dr. Keith Smith
God help you, I’m just gonna match all of your prices, and then what becomes of Surgery Center of Oklahoma, and my response was, that’s great, because then the only way to compare us will be quality, and then you die. So,
this tendency to collaborate is a little counterintuitive because most people would say, you greedy capitalist pig, free marketeers, all you’re trying to do is just dog eat dog and kill your competitors and nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is when a potential competitor comes to me who’s going to build a surgery center
business I tell them everything I reveal all and it’s because I’m not afraid and I’m not afraid of them and when and they might not be afraid of me and so now we have a situation in Indiana and Indianapolis this is a great example WellBridge Surgery Center I told those guys everything.
Dr. Keith Smith
And that’s the really cool part of this, that once someone really gets dialed in and understands truly what this organization and its members are about, they begin to understand this is not a get rich quick sort of mechanism. This is a mission driven movement. And once people understand that, it’s more of an arm in arm cooperative, collaborative
dog eat dog zero sum insanity. So Wellbridge I think is as good of an example as I can throw out there. There are others, but they’ve just done an astonishing job and have provided me with a lot of meat to chew on and how I can do things differently here.
Christopher Habig
Completely agree with you and I count the.
the gentleman and the team over at WellBridge as personal friends and actually had Dr. Eric Inman on here podcast and the last season show. And what’s interesting about that, I don’t think a lot of people give enough credence about it because there’s only a handful of surgery centers around the country such as Surgery Center Oklahoma and WellBridge are doing this, but the value they add to the local communities is exponential what they’re going to be able to see from influencing people, from actually providing care.
You know, from our standpoint, we view ourselves in the DPC world as really the gatekeepers into accessing the healthcare world and the base of the pyramid to have a facility such as WellBridge and my hometown of Indianapolis. I mean, the collaboration in the cash economy, we’ve basically built out our own alternate healthcare industry within the 465 loop. And anybody’s familiar with Indianapolis Interstate 465 is the highway that goes around that. But we have such cool interactions
between patients who are paying memberships and then go and get a fantastic rate and fantastic care from the folks over at WellBridge, kind of, you know, underneath the tutelage of what you did in the past there. It’s so neat to see people encouraging others to say, look, we’re going to go ahead and pay it forward, not just this is my basketball, this is my football, I’m going to take it, I’m going to go home. I want to ask you a question here, Dr. Smith. You know, we’re talking to Jay about, hey, what can people expect at the FMMA conference.
And really, why should somebody join the FMMA? When you were talking, I got thinking, you know what? I think the more appropriate question might be, who is not a good fit for the Free Market Medical Association? Who wouldn’t necessarily see eye to eye or benefit from attending events wherever they are in different chapters in the annual conference?
Dr. Keith Smith
Yeah, I think that going back to your last statement and to last year’s conference, I think we all came to grips with the idea that this is not a revolution, that it’s a rebellion. This is not an organization that is designed to change the current cesspool system to create
good policy ideas for government. This is an organization that is a rebellion. This is an organization that is designed to create an alternative path. And our job is to continue to build out that path, make it as all-inclusive for types of medical services that can be
is a price or at least a transparent methodology. And build that out in such a way that the buyer knows they have a choice. Right now, everyone in this movement knows that the buyer has a choice. The buyer doesn’t know there even is a choice by and large, but as they become aware, and I think that burden is on us. I think, I don’t know another way to say it,
salesman hat and we have to speak in this way. We have to say we know you’re buying from vendor A but you should at least be aware vendor B is out there. There is an alternative way for you to do business and unlike them we will not rob you. We will not steal from you and you will feel like this is a mutually beneficial exchange. That’s a pretty easy thing to sell actually.
So the people that should not be part of this are people who are sympathetic to our ideas, but would want to hijack it into some government policy, some lobbying sort of effort that’s aimed at policymakers and corrupt politicians.
Dr. Keith Smith
Those people will be terribly frustrated in this organization. The people who should join, who will not probably ever join, are the people who run these big hospital systems and insurance companies, who really should join so that they can know truly what their nemesis is doing. I think we have actually had some intelligence gathering that is
gone on in the meetings. This organization I think is high profile enough and it’s scary. I watched a video of the head of the Texas Hospital Association the other day and he’s speaking to a room full of price gouging administrators and his message to them was if we all unite we can recapture our narrative.
Well, what happened to their narrative? Where did it go? Who’s responsible for them losing it? I would argue it is this association and it is this movement by and large that has imperiled this narrative. How incredible is that statement? But I think it’s this movement and this organization that has imperiled that narrative. And I think that it’s important for everyone to understand. The hospitals are not,
creeped out by what we’re doing because they’re afraid we are going to take them over. I think they truly are afraid of an alternate path because once the buyer knows that an alternate way of buying medical services is there and they start buying it, the old system will just wither on its own. No one will have to do anything to the old system.
People walking away from it as buyers will kill it. So the people who should stay away are the people that would have FMMA raise money for lobbying activities. That’s not who we are. There are organizations out there like that and I don’t mean to begrudge what they do. I don’t think we need new laws. I don’t think we ever need new laws except the ones that repeal old laws. I’m all in favor of
laws that repeal old legislation. But yeah, that’s probably the answer that I would give to that question.
Christopher Habig
It’s always very refreshing and we see this a lot from our side of it that what makes you…
I’m going to say attractive and not, you know, don’t use the word dangerous is that you don’t have a legislative wish list, which means that you’re not beholden to anybody or any type of interest. You’re just saying just stay out of my way. I’m succeeding in spite of you, not because of you. And I love what you said. Like, look, we’re open to everybody. If you’re a hospital and want to come in, then that’s great. I think right now that hospitals are very thankful because they’ve been the villain for so long. They’re very thankful that private equity is emerging on the scene
now, instead of hospitals and insurance companies pointing fingers at each other, they can both point it at private equity and say, look, these are the real bad guys, but there’s no actual fix. Meanwhile, Surgeon Center of Oklahoma, WellBridge, Freedom Healthworks, Free Market Medical Association, we’re going to continue doing our thing in the background and saying, you know what, you guys go fight over your little sandbox over there. We’re going to go and we’re going to go take over this entire beach over here and not just play in our little 10 by 10 sandbox over here.
This is how we’re going to do it because we have and I hesitate usually to use the word better but a better service, better product is easier for people to buy, it’s easier for people to understand and as that education catches up to people we’re going to see more and more of that. I really believe that we are on the right side of this type of innovative model coming forward and I do want to talk about you know where we were
10 years ago, because this is now the 10th annual Free Market Medical Association Annual Conference. I want you to 10 years to me is a long time. Like I don’t even know how other people, you know, remember what they did last week. But 10 years ago, Dr. Smith, what did the conference look like versus what’s it going to look like coming up this year in 2024?
Dr. Keith Smith
You know, I was thinking the other day, anybody that has owned and operated a business for 10 years is to be congratulated. Anyone that has been part of Infant May for 10 years needs to realize that this is an organization that has not just survived. This is an organization that has thrived and grown in the presence of indescribable headwinds. The juggernaut
of the cesspool is so indescribably huge and well-funded given political cover that FMMA has done so well I think is proof that we have done exactly what we said we were going to do create this alternative not try to get in and change the system.
This was Jay’s idea. Jay is the one who thought it would be a good idea. He was part of a bankers association that had very successful meetings. He was affiliated with some people and had some staff people who really knew how to run a good meeting. I had no idea any of the mechanics of how you put a meeting on. But he suggested we start this because his competitors were very curious about how he was working with
me and my competitors were very angry that he was sending patients my way and not their way, actually redirecting them away from my competitors. So, you know, astonished, I taught my competitors how to essentially copy what I had done and Jay was very open with his competitors. Jay actually arranged for Steve Lantier and I to be on stage in Las Vegas at an SPBA
meeting where we told all of Jay’s competitors in the room what we did and how we were doing it.
I didn’t keep any of what I was doing or how I did it a secret and neither did Jay. And those are two of the foundational concepts that allowed this organization to get off the ground. We met for the very first time with an understanding and a handshake that if 50 people showed up, we would call it a good try and we would quit. Because if 50 people showed up, Jay and I were going to have to write a big check to
pay for the whole thing in the shortfall. We decided if 75 people showed up that we would go back to the drawing board and decide if we were going to have it again the next year because the numbers just didn’t work beyond that. We had no idea that 120 people were going to show up and they did. We had an issue with the fire marshal where we were meeting because it was I think we were okay for like 100 or 105 in that space and it was standing room
only the first time, you know, the first meeting. And some of the speakers who were at that very first meeting who were key to the organization’s early launch and success will be here at year 10. So FMMA 10 is a victory lap. I’m sorry, I’m just going to throw that out there. This is a damn victory lap. Because this organization has meant everything
Dr. Keith Smith
to some of the members that are a part of it. This organization is the reason that some people convinced that they were insane now know that they were not insane. This organization has created the networking opportunities that have allowed people to not quit, to not just walk away from medical practice. It has allowed them or alerted them
to certain ways or to conduct their life and conduct their practice in a way that was healthy. So there’s a real bond that has grown in this last ten years because there will be people in the audience that have been to every single one of these meetings, every single one. And they know, were it not for this gathering, or someone I met at this
gathering or some little tidbit that someone very generously just offered up that my practice would be over and I would have had to quit. I would have had to figure out another way to make a living. So FMMA 10 is an incredibly nostalgic gathering I would predict. So I think there will be a celebration
but there will also be a very palpable humility and it’ll be a very poignant time for some people that are there and I would encourage all of those who are planning on attending for the first time to think carefully about what I said because this organization is very important and it means a lot to a lot of people who are in the room.
Christopher Habig
I will reiterate what I reiterate, excuse me, what I said earlier in the episode about, you know, the FMMA has been in my mind, that missing link between people that always want to work together, but yet nobody knew quite how to do it. And there’s a lot of people, like you said, on both sides of that transaction and even, you know, it’s not just a one on one interaction a lot of times when it comes to healthcare. There’s a lot of people
that add value, I will say that in between there that helps that interaction happen. But for so long and even in my career, we wanted to work with a lot of people who thought very similar to what we thought. And the same philosophies and you know, maybe my way is not the best way, but let me learn from you. Like you’ve said multiple times. And the FMMA to me is that sinew, it’s that glue, it’s that tissue that brings those people together and actually answers the question of, well, shoot, how do we actually do this?
Cause you can learn from so many different ways that people are doing things. Dr. Smith, let me give you the last word here, you know, for somebody listening and saying, wow, this sounds amazing. I want to learn more about it. I want to get involved in the FMMA. Point them in the right direction.
Dr. Keith Smith
Well, first go to the website at fmma.org. A lot of information is there. There are a lot of YouTube videos. I think almost every speaker who’s ever spoken is on YouTube. And think about coming to Oklahoma City. The meeting is April 10 through 12. There are plenty of tickets left. I will say though, we are…
at a place now that indicates, if any, if last year is any indication that it is going to sell out. So if you’re inclined at all to come to the meeting, I would encourage you to get your tickets sooner rather than later. It’ll be at the Omni in Oklahoma City. It’s a great venue, great speakers, nationally recognized speakers there. Larry Van Horn, Marty Makary,
are some of the better known ones.
Corey Zavada and Adam Russo, two of the biggest ERISA lawyers, Chris Deacon, big ERISA lawyers will be there. They’ll have very exciting things to talk about, including updates on these fiduciary lawsuits that are going to rock the self-funded world. So these tickets are available through the website.
Dr. Keith Smith
And I would encourage everyone to consider attending. And you know, I continue to receive messages from people all over the country that we’re at a gathering where Ron Paul was speaking, we’re a gathering where Steve Forbes was speaking.
They never fail to mention the Free Market Medical Association. They recognize that this is the free people’s approach to this industry. They recognize this is the key, and the free market is always the key, to matching services in the most efficient way to the buyers. And they always mention this.
So there are people out in the country who have a bullhorn talking about this and this is everyone’s opportunity to come see what it’s all about. And year 10 is really going to be a great opportunity to get a taste of what it’s about because of this sort of nostalgic look back and how it truly applies we believe to the future.
Christopher Habig
It’s definitely a very noble mission. And Dr. Smith, I thank you for joining us here in Healthcare Americana. And thank you to the FMMA for really help powering our show and bringing new listeners. And it’s our pleasure to help educate the audience. What you didn’t say was that you got the world’s best emcee going to be center stage for the third year in a row with yours truly here. You know, I’m sitting there.
Dr. Keith Smith
There you go, that’s right.
Christopher Habig
I’m sitting on my, I don’t know how many times I got to bait Dr. Smith into, into calling that out, but you know, having the onstage talent always, always helps. That’s always a big draw here. Dr. Keith Smith. I can’t even do my outro here, man. He got me laughing. So Dr. Keith Smith, Surgery Center of Oklahoma and founder of the Free Market Medical Association. Dr. Smith, thanks for coming on the show and chatting with us about the FMMA.
Dr. Keith Smith
You bet. Look forward to seeing you.
Christopher Habig
Once again, a big thank you to Jay Kempton also for part one of our episode. And you are listeners for tuning in if you found today’s discussion as fascinating and fun as I did. Don’t forget to check out the FMMA and subscribe to Healthcare Americana. Share this episode and join us next time as we continue to explore innovations shaping healthcare. I’m Christopher Habig. Thanks for listening.
[OUTRO]
Announcer
Check out healthcareamericana.com to hear all of our episodes. Visit the shop and learn more about the podcast. Healthcare Americana is produced and managed by Taylor Scott and iPodcastPro.
FreedomDoc
Healthcare Americana is brought to you by Freedom Healthworks and FreedomDoc. If you’ve been struggling to get the care you need and the access you want, it’s time to join your local FreedomDoc. Visit freedomdoc.care to find the practice location nearest you.
Free Market Medical Association
Whether you’re a patient’s employer or physician, the Free Market Medical Association can facilitate and assist you in your free-market healthcare journey. The foundation of our association is built upon three pillars: price, value, and equality with complete transparency in everything we do. Our goal is simple, match willing buyers with willing sellers of valuable healthcare services. Join us and help accelerate the growth of the free market healthcare revolution. For more information on the Free Market Medical Association, visit fmma.org.
[END]